Assuming they don't get hit by a car walking to school.
_ZeD_ · 2026-06-30 05:32:04 UTC
And the rest of the world people? would it be healthier? the doubt is striking me
plugger · 2026-06-30 06:31:49 UTC
I live in Western Australia. for 3 years we trialed DST from 2006 to 2009. It was a nightmare personally, I was a sysadmin at the time and enterprise management tools were expensive and crap so we had to roll out DST file changes across our fleet manually. And because the change to allow DST for our region was a rushed job we then had to roll back after the 3 year unsuccessful trial.
Honestly, it was super stressful at the time. And DST that doesn't exist doesn't bother you in the slightest. Every day ends and flows into the next like the last. But the stress of a clock change twice a year doesn't have to happen, it's a choice.
ssl-3 · 2026-06-30 07:07:35 UTC
The US extended DST by 4 weeks in 2007. We managed that well-enough. We can manage a similarly-sweeping change again.
(Sorry about your nightmare. It was easy on the systems I took care of at that time.)
plugger · 2026-06-30 07:28:47 UTC
Obviously I would have forgotten most of this given the change was 20 years ago but IIRC DST config on Solaris at the time was statically coded. You could modify the timezone config as a hacky fix on Solaris 8 but the permanent fix involved recompiling zic.
mikestorrent · 2026-06-30 05:34:55 UTC
Are you Yanks seriously not going to get this sorted out before winter? BC has moved - can at least the rest of Cascadia get their asses in gear? Come on, California, I do not want to be dealing with a north-south time zone difference with my coworkers
frollogaston · 2026-06-30 06:02:27 UTC
Then get BC to change it back
mikestorrent · 2026-06-30 20:51:20 UTC
Hell no. Never going back.
ssl-3 · 2026-06-30 06:08:26 UTC
Yes, we won't. It turns out that we're way too terrible at being rational way too much of the time.
For DST in particular: Even discussions where the participants manage to form something resembling a quorum to stop changing the clocks twice every year somehow manage to unilaterally get sucked into a seemingly-inescapable quagmire of differing opinions, wherein: The decision of whether to use standard time and stick with it or to stick with DST instead becomes an intractable impasse.
Accordingly, nothing ever gets done.
I have every expectation that I will be dead and buried before this issue is resolved.
evilfred · 2026-06-30 06:11:03 UTC
I think US states aren't allowed to switch unless the feds decide to allow it
kortilla · 2026-06-30 06:22:40 UTC
Arizona doesn’t have it
mixologic · 2026-06-30 06:28:06 UTC
US States aren't allowed to have permanent DST, but they can have permanent standard time.
wpm · 2026-06-30 06:37:25 UTC
Tough shit. I live on the eastern edge of Central Time, I don't want to be dealing with 3PM sunsets in December.
mikestorrent · 2026-06-30 20:51:42 UTC
Who gives a shit what time it happens at? It's not like you're actually making the day shorter or longer, man.
nerdsniper · 2026-06-30 06:51:15 UTC
We don’t really get much of anything sorted these days.
kuboble · 2026-06-30 05:36:22 UTC
I really wonder about the methodology. The article didn't mention it.
Did they get several cities to participate?
sixothree · 2026-06-30 05:39:30 UTC
I really don't want the sunrise time to be 5:00 in the morning and still not have any daylight to do errands after work. I don't care what the reasons are, but if seasons change the sunset time, what's so wrong with changing it a bit more?
NoGravitas · 2026-06-30 15:52:48 UTC
Why do you need daylight to do errands?
sixothree · 2026-06-30 19:58:07 UTC
And why do you ask stupid questions?
One of my errands is usually spend an hour in the park. I don't really need daylight for that. But I without DST I would have the daylight available but allocated incorrectly. Who wants incorrectly allocated daylight?
kubb · 2026-06-30 05:47:41 UTC
This isn’t going to get fixed in my lifetime, and that’s sad. Countries have lost the ability to act.
JauntyHatAngle · 2026-06-30 05:49:50 UTC
Plenty of countries have moved away from DST. Over half who previously used it IIRC.
lnsru · 2026-06-30 06:00:55 UTC
Please name some of these countries. Europe is stuck with this nonsense and there is no hope in sight despite yearly polls showing majority people being against it.
worthless-trash · 2026-06-30 06:16:48 UTC
Queensland Australia, a single state moved away from it. It is glorious.
Queensland Australia is relatively close to the equator, and the length of day does not change dramatically between summer and winter.
DST is intended for places at higher latitudes.
toxik · 2026-06-30 06:52:18 UTC
No, it is intended for a small band of places where the latitude is big enough to make winter and summer daytime length significantly different, but not so different that DST does nothing. In Sweden, with DST, the sunrise is at 4am in summer and 8am in winter. Just set it so noon is actually noon.
tristanj · 2026-06-30 07:04:26 UTC
> In Sweden, with DST, the sunrise is at 4am in summer and 8am in winter.
In Sweden, in summer without DST, sunrise in Stockholm would happen ~2:30 AM. In the current system, with DST, sunrise happens around 3:30 AM, an improvement.
In winter, if Sweden kept permanent DST (which is what many advocate for), sunrise in December would happen at around 9:45 AM. In the current system (shifting time back during winter), it happens around 8:45 AM, a more reasonable time.
You realize you're literally proving my point?
> Just set it so noon is actually noon.
Pretty meaningless to advocate for this, then every longitude would have its own timezone, defeating the purpose of timezones.
toxik · 2026-06-30 18:22:09 UTC
Well, you certainly got a combative tone. I don't care if it's 8:45 or 9:45, it is what it is. You don't get more or fewer hours of sun, it's dark when you go to work, it's dark when you get home from work. With DST. Noon at noon is pretty much what the time zones are aiming for, yes.
reedf1 · 2026-06-30 06:53:49 UTC
You've said this repeatedly, but it is largely not true.
tristanj · 2026-06-30 07:14:24 UTC
Elaborate.
The intent of DST is to normalize variations in the time of sunrise between summer and winter.
Places closer to the equator have minimal variation in the time of sunrise between seasons. They don't need DST.
Higher latitudes have large variation (i.e. Seattle, where the time of sunrise shifts between 4am in summer to 8am in winter), so they benefit from DST or summer/winter hours.
DST is one of the simplest implementations of seasonal hours on a regional scale.
reedf1 · 2026-06-30 07:36:04 UTC
What people usually mean by abolishing DST is permanent summer hours. If your problem was sunrise timing, then problem solved - DST actually moves that earlier than you require twice a year for normal working hours (i.e. less sun in the evenings). Source: my own high latitude life.
tristanj · 2026-06-30 08:02:05 UTC
Abolishing DST for permanent summer hours don't address the winter sunrise issue.
Under permanent DST, the sun rises around 9 AM in December in Seattle. That's far too late. I, and millions of other people, do not want to wake up 2 hours before sunrise and drive to work in the dark.
Under the current system (DST reverts back during winter), sunrise is shifted an hour earlier to around 8AM, which is manageable. I don't have to drive to work in the dark.
I guess you're fine commuting home in the dark? But regardless, you can navigate without light an hour before sunrise.
yubblegum · 2026-06-30 11:33:39 UTC
If the morning commute is the only issue, then it is likely that in the relatively near future (all things being equal) work life may revert back to its pre-automobile mode where your work was either at home or fairly close to your home. That may end DST.
mbirth · 2026-06-30 16:01:37 UTC
> The intent of DST is to normalize variations in the time of sunrise between summer and winter.
The intent of DST was to conserve energy by moving daylight into the evening hours. However, it turned out that people need light in the morning, too, and that DST had no effect on overall energy usage.
So, why not end this failed experiment and return to how it was before?
And please let's go with standard time, i.e. where the sun is at its highest point around the 12:00 o'clock mark.
Office hours are a lame excuse as most modern jobs - especially those of people on this site - surely allow flexible time. And even if not, every company is free to adjust office hours during the year - as it's already done in e.g. Turkey since they got rid of DST. Same with school hours, store opening hours, etc. - I'm pretty sure they will adjust where needed.
If you like disturbing your sleep cycle twice a year so much, feel free to change the wakeup time on your alarm clock whenever you wish.
(If it weren’t such a hassle with date changes, I'd vote for world-wide UTC, btw. And I'd love some unified decimal date/time system even more.)
worthless-trash · 2026-06-30 07:09:13 UTC
Queensland may be, but Brisbane is not relatively close to the equator. Its 27 degrees. Tip of cape york is 10 degrees, thats a pretty big difference.
It can be dark in Brisbane and still light at my parents house near cape york.
Paraguay 2024
Iran 2022
Jordan 2022
Syria 2022
Fiji 2021
Samoa 2021
Brazil 2019
Morocco 2018
Western Sahara 2018
Namibia 2017
Tonga 2017
Mongolia 2016
Turkey 2016
Azerbaijan 2015
Uruguay 2015
Russia 2014
Libya 2013
Armenia 2011
Belarus 2010
Falklands 2010
Argentina 2009
Bangladesh 2009
Mauritius 2009
Pakistan 2009
Tunisia 2008
Iraq 2007
Guatemala 2006
Honduras 2006
Nicaragua 2006
Sri Lanka 2006
Georgia 2005
Kyrgyzstan 2005
Kazakhstan 2004
frollogaston · 2026-06-30 14:48:12 UTC
At first glance, seems most of those are closer to the Equator than Western Europe. The exceptions I see are Russia and Kazakhstan.
rrr_oh_man · 2026-06-30 15:22:49 UTC
Most countries are closer to the equator than European countries.
And Spain is on the same latitude as Turkmenistan.
frollogaston · 2026-06-30 17:30:20 UTC
Yeah, which is why DST matters more in Europe. Spain might not need it though.
bigmadshoe · 2026-06-30 17:33:56 UTC
British Columbia is far from the equator and just removed DST (permanent summer time).
keiferski · 2026-06-30 05:48:42 UTC
Of all the things that cause obesity and sleep loss, is an hour change twice a year really a major issue?
MisterBastahrd · 2026-06-30 06:06:50 UTC
It's an extra hour of potential outdoors activity before nightfall. Yes.
keiferski · 2026-06-30 07:10:28 UTC
Do you think the average person is already spending the maximum amount of time outdoors to begin with?
pimlottc · 2026-06-30 06:11:15 UTC
I don’t know, maybe someone should do a study on it.
kortilla · 2026-06-30 06:21:45 UTC
“This stupid thing we do that is worse for society than the perceived upsides is only twice a year. Why not keep doing it anyway?”
scns · 2026-06-30 07:47:37 UTC
There are measurably more heart attacks and traffic accidents after the switch.
keiferski · 2026-06-30 07:52:45 UTC
Which switch? 1918?
pseudalopex · 2026-06-30 09:40:16 UTC
Some researchers found heart attacks rose a little after clocks were set forward and fell a little after clocks were set back. Other researchers found no significant change.
b112 · 2026-06-30 05:54:06 UTC
"Study by people who hate daylight savings time and have great bias against it, suggests that..."
andrepd · 2026-06-30 05:58:22 UTC
> the researchers estimate that permanent standard time would result in some 300,000 fewer people having suffered from a stroke and result in 2.6 million fewer people having obesity
That 2.6 million people are obese because of a 1h shorter change night in one Sunday a year is an extraordinary claim. I would love to understand how they got to this result.
userbinator · 2026-06-30 06:01:44 UTC
It was tried 52 years ago, and no one actually liked it, so we went back to DST again:
Possibly another example of the old Chesterton's Fence.
tumult · 2026-06-30 06:04:58 UTC
No, that’s describing permanent DST, which was tried and failed, not lack of DST. Most people in the world live without DST and it’s fine. (The article also mentions this.)
tristanj · 2026-06-30 06:28:23 UTC
The majority of the planet do not live at higher latitudes, where implementing adjusted summer/winter hours actually makes sense.
reedf1 · 2026-06-30 06:44:12 UTC
Except it's not like Chesterton's fence, it was created at the edge of living memory for known reasons. If anything it's an example of the opposite effect, something like Chesterton's field, do we really need to build a wall here, it's been a field for a damn long time...
tristanj · 2026-06-30 06:12:57 UTC
Do the anti-DST people understand what they're advocating for?
In Seattle, without DST, sunrise happens at 4:11am. Because of DST, it's pushed back an hour later to a more reasonable 5:11am.
I am not awake at 4am, I have no use for sunlight at 4am, and I don't want the sun appearing that early. That hour of early sunlight is wasted for me. Plus with DST, the sun sets an hour later, at 9:11pm, a time I am actually awake, and I can actually go outside and use the extra sun.
And, with permanent DST (which is what many people are advocating for), then in winter sunrise is at 9am in Seattle, which is far too late. I do not want to drive to work in the dark, before sunrise. So I want standard time in winter, pushing sunrise an hour earlier to a more reasonable 8am.
In both situations (summer and winter), modifying the time via DST benefits me and gives me better use of sunlight.
snowe2010 · 2026-06-30 06:17:39 UTC
Yeah, it’s insane. Along with that, any permanent gains in the morning will be lost as soon as it becomes normal. Businesses will just open that much earlier. And this study assumed bedtimes of 10pm, which is not the average anywhere on the planet from what I remember the last time I looked into this. The average is like past midnight.
wpm · 2026-06-30 06:35:04 UTC
More tyranny inflicted upon the rest of us by morning people
kortilla · 2026-06-30 06:20:15 UTC
This just seems like a backwards justification. There is nothing wrong with a 9am sunrise or a 4:11am sunrise. People in Anchorage deal with both just fine.
> I am not awake at 4am, I have no use for sunlight at 4am
Most people aren’t awake at 5am either. Your use for the sun when there is an excess of it that goes well past your bedtime if you get up at 5am is irrelevant.
suddenlybananas · 2026-06-30 06:23:55 UTC
4am sunrise seems ludicrously early to me, but then again, even a 5am sunrise is awfully early.
reedf1 · 2026-06-30 06:39:28 UTC
Ever lived at high latitude? It's normal.
suddenlybananas · 2026-06-30 10:37:39 UTC
I live at a higher latitude than Seattle and the earliest sunrise is 5:45 or so.
tristanj · 2026-06-30 06:24:01 UTC
My work starts at 9am, therefore I wake up around 7am. My work start time does not adjust based on the seasons. Any sun before 7am is wasted for me.
Under DST, at summer solstice, the sun rises around 5am, giving me 2 hours of wasted sunlight.
Without DST, at summer solstice, the sun rises around 4am, giving me 3 hours of wasted sunlight.
I enjoy having additional hours of sunlight when I am awake, so for me I actually prefer having DST vs without it.
Similarly, in the wintertime, under permanent DST, sunrise is around 9am, and I don't want to drive to work in the dark.
zokier · 2026-06-30 06:49:02 UTC
You can still wake up earlier and enjoy your sunrise even if your working hours are fixed.
tristanj · 2026-06-30 11:03:30 UTC
Are you seriously suggesting I wake naturally at sunrise (4 AM), then start work 5 hours(!) later? I can't change my work start time.
That's an unproductive use of my time.
hnfong · 2026-06-30 06:51:42 UTC
I still don't understand why you don't just wake up earlier.
It's not like without DST you have to work so late that you don't have enough hours for sleep, right?
kortilla · 2026-06-30 10:24:38 UTC
Get out of bed earlier then and go to bed earlier. You’re inventing a fake problem.
pibaker · 2026-06-30 16:41:35 UTC
Everything you said is me, me, me.
In the meanwhile I know enough people who wake up super early to walk their dogs, or to work out, or you know, to go to their work which opens at 6:30. Do they not count?
toxik · 2026-06-30 06:49:36 UTC
I can see the DST argument for people where the shift kinda sorta works out, but many places (like Anchorage!) it's completely unnecessary. I live in Sweden and it's just the twice annually "ah shit the clock moved overnight."
AngryData · 2026-06-30 06:28:10 UTC
Why should the clock be set to those arbitrary points? If you want sun in the morning, wake up later, it you want sun in the evening, wake up earlier.
If your issue is when work is scheduled, well businesses set their own hours, not the government.
jonplackett · 2026-06-30 06:36:31 UTC
Businesses don’t care how much sun you get
AngryData · 2026-06-30 06:41:56 UTC
The government doesn't set the opening hours of businesses though either.
okanat · 2026-06-30 06:55:27 UTC
They do with DST.
happymellon · 2026-06-30 08:20:04 UTC
That doesn't set the opening hours.
The bar near me has different opening hours to the library, and that has nothing to do with DST.
gspetr · 2026-06-30 10:40:09 UTC
The government? Or your government?
Because there are countries where national or state governments do.
I will fight tooth and nail against attempts to take one hour of daylight from me in the evenings for half of the year.
reedf1 · 2026-06-30 06:56:21 UTC
"Working hours will not change". Except they have in most countries where they have got rid of DST...
socalgal2 · 2026-06-30 07:08:49 UTC
They have? Which countries are those?
reedf1 · 2026-06-30 07:16:17 UTC
If you are looking for an example I did some contract work for a company in Turkey that implemented winter hours and summer hours for their office after abolishing DST in 2016. As far as I understand it, it's fairly standard across the country.
seanmcdirmid · 2026-06-30 06:41:27 UTC
Then we should have timezones based not just on longitude, but also latitude. So northerly locales can get some sleep in the spring/summer/fall.
> If your issue is when work is scheduled, well businesses set their own hours, not the government.
Ah, someone who doesn't have kids in school/camp/some random activity yet.
We know how this goes in China (one time zone, no daylight savings time). Coming home from the bar in Beijing with the sun showing up at 4 AM was quaint back then, but I'm definitely glad we have DST in the states.
ssl-3 · 2026-06-30 06:56:28 UTC
How many school kids are coming back from the bars at 4 AM in Beijing?
seanmcdirmid · 2026-06-30 07:28:24 UTC
That was before I had kids, my point is that I’m familiar with life without DST even at a lower latitude can get weird.
captainmuon · 2026-06-30 06:57:38 UTC
Beijing is a bad example, because all of China actually has Beijing time. It gets confusing in Xinjang, which is 2 hours in the "wrong" timezone. But that doesn't mean that people start work at 8:00 in complete darkness, they just start at 10:00 wall time.
I think the talk of daylight savings time is a distraction, in the end it is arbitrary what the clock says. As a society we need to negotiate when (in celestial time) we want to do certain activities. For example, there are a lot of studies that school starts to early (relative to sunrise and the average bed time of teenagers). But the school starting time has to be decided politically. And reduced working hours or later start times have to be negotiated by trade unions, politics etc.. That's a lot more messy than just shifting wall time.
seanmcdirmid · 2026-06-30 07:24:01 UTC
Urumuqi actually delays store openings/closings (department stores open at 11AM, for example), so it isn't that bad. Beijing time in Beijing should be accurate, but without DST, the sun rises way too early in the morning. But even then the schedules are still fixed, just the Chinese enjoy their night life, so the sun setting at 6-7PM in the summer isn't really a big deal.
Our school schedules are set by weird rules involving when school bus capacity is available. But in general, 9AM is about when school starts (for my son's K-8, its 8AM here for K-5s), or summer camp session starts, or whatever. My schedule is so influenced by my kid these days, it happens to correspond to rush hour, which sucks, because everyone else's schedules are intertwined (so traffic).
I WFH and can definitely set my own work hours. Which is why its 12:30 AM and I still haven't gone to bed yet.
perilunar · 2026-06-30 09:46:44 UTC
> Then we should have timezones based not just on longitude, but also latitude
Of course. In Australia the southern states do summer time, and the northern states don't.
artisinal · 2026-06-30 07:11:16 UTC
> businesses set their own hours, not the government
In plenty of countries the government decides the opening hours of shops, restaurants and sometimes even offices. Labour laws and nighttime pay are coupled to the hours on the clock. Hours you can make noise is decided by government. Germany has the mid-day resting hour (Mittagsruhe).
sokoloff · 2026-06-30 11:16:31 UTC
The government sets the hours of the schools, which in turn drives the schedules of a fair chunk of society.
reedf1 · 2026-06-30 06:37:56 UTC
Hol up, don't fix time, there's a few guys in Seattle without curtains. Sorry everyone.
pseudalopex · 2026-06-30 08:37:50 UTC
Curtains would make the sun set later in summer and rise earlier in winter?
zokier · 2026-06-30 06:46:02 UTC
You realize that you can change your own sleep patterns seasonally if you want to? Heck, you could do that even gradually instead of those abrupt 1 hour changes. That is your choice, we don't need to fiddle with clocks for the whole society for that.
Comments
Honestly, it was super stressful at the time. And DST that doesn't exist doesn't bother you in the slightest. Every day ends and flows into the next like the last. But the stress of a clock change twice a year doesn't have to happen, it's a choice.
(Sorry about your nightmare. It was easy on the systems I took care of at that time.)
For DST in particular: Even discussions where the participants manage to form something resembling a quorum to stop changing the clocks twice every year somehow manage to unilaterally get sucked into a seemingly-inescapable quagmire of differing opinions, wherein: The decision of whether to use standard time and stick with it or to stick with DST instead becomes an intractable impasse.
Accordingly, nothing ever gets done.
I have every expectation that I will be dead and buried before this issue is resolved.
Did they get several cities to participate?
One of my errands is usually spend an hour in the park. I don't really need daylight for that. But I without DST I would have the daylight available but allocated incorrectly. Who wants incorrectly allocated daylight?
Queensland Australia is relatively close to the equator, and the length of day does not change dramatically between summer and winter.
DST is intended for places at higher latitudes.
In Sweden, in summer without DST, sunrise in Stockholm would happen ~2:30 AM. In the current system, with DST, sunrise happens around 3:30 AM, an improvement.
In winter, if Sweden kept permanent DST (which is what many advocate for), sunrise in December would happen at around 9:45 AM. In the current system (shifting time back during winter), it happens around 8:45 AM, a more reasonable time.
You realize you're literally proving my point?
> Just set it so noon is actually noon.
Pretty meaningless to advocate for this, then every longitude would have its own timezone, defeating the purpose of timezones.
The intent of DST is to normalize variations in the time of sunrise between summer and winter.
Places closer to the equator have minimal variation in the time of sunrise between seasons. They don't need DST.
Higher latitudes have large variation (i.e. Seattle, where the time of sunrise shifts between 4am in summer to 8am in winter), so they benefit from DST or summer/winter hours.
DST is one of the simplest implementations of seasonal hours on a regional scale.
Under permanent DST, the sun rises around 9 AM in December in Seattle. That's far too late. I, and millions of other people, do not want to wake up 2 hours before sunrise and drive to work in the dark.
Under the current system (DST reverts back during winter), sunrise is shifted an hour earlier to around 8AM, which is manageable. I don't have to drive to work in the dark.
https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/usa/seattle
The intent of DST was to conserve energy by moving daylight into the evening hours. However, it turned out that people need light in the morning, too, and that DST had no effect on overall energy usage.
So, why not end this failed experiment and return to how it was before?
And please let's go with standard time, i.e. where the sun is at its highest point around the 12:00 o'clock mark.
Office hours are a lame excuse as most modern jobs - especially those of people on this site - surely allow flexible time. And even if not, every company is free to adjust office hours during the year - as it's already done in e.g. Turkey since they got rid of DST. Same with school hours, store opening hours, etc. - I'm pretty sure they will adjust where needed.
If you like disturbing your sleep cycle twice a year so much, feel free to change the wakeup time on your alarm clock whenever you wish.
(If it weren’t such a hassle with date changes, I'd vote for world-wide UTC, btw. And I'd love some unified decimal date/time system even more.)
It can be dark in Brisbane and still light at my parents house near cape york.
According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time_by_countr... since 2000:
And Spain is on the same latitude as Turkmenistan.
That 2.6 million people are obese because of a 1h shorter change night in one Sunday a year is an extraordinary claim. I would love to understand how they got to this result.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_time_observation_in_...
Possibly another example of the old Chesterton's Fence.
Have a look at the sunset/sunrise graph for northern parts of the US https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/usa/seattle
In Seattle, without DST, sunrise happens at 4:11am. Because of DST, it's pushed back an hour later to a more reasonable 5:11am.
I am not awake at 4am, I have no use for sunlight at 4am, and I don't want the sun appearing that early. That hour of early sunlight is wasted for me. Plus with DST, the sun sets an hour later, at 9:11pm, a time I am actually awake, and I can actually go outside and use the extra sun.
And, with permanent DST (which is what many people are advocating for), then in winter sunrise is at 9am in Seattle, which is far too late. I do not want to drive to work in the dark, before sunrise. So I want standard time in winter, pushing sunrise an hour earlier to a more reasonable 8am.
In both situations (summer and winter), modifying the time via DST benefits me and gives me better use of sunlight.
> I am not awake at 4am, I have no use for sunlight at 4am
Most people aren’t awake at 5am either. Your use for the sun when there is an excess of it that goes well past your bedtime if you get up at 5am is irrelevant.
Under DST, at summer solstice, the sun rises around 5am, giving me 2 hours of wasted sunlight.
Without DST, at summer solstice, the sun rises around 4am, giving me 3 hours of wasted sunlight.
I enjoy having additional hours of sunlight when I am awake, so for me I actually prefer having DST vs without it.
Similarly, in the wintertime, under permanent DST, sunrise is around 9am, and I don't want to drive to work in the dark.
That's an unproductive use of my time.
It's not like without DST you have to work so late that you don't have enough hours for sleep, right?
In the meanwhile I know enough people who wake up super early to walk their dogs, or to work out, or you know, to go to their work which opens at 6:30. Do they not count?
If your issue is when work is scheduled, well businesses set their own hours, not the government.
The bar near me has different opening hours to the library, and that has nothing to do with DST.
Because there are countries where national or state governments do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shopping_hours#Germany
I will fight tooth and nail against attempts to take one hour of daylight from me in the evenings for half of the year.
> If your issue is when work is scheduled, well businesses set their own hours, not the government.
Ah, someone who doesn't have kids in school/camp/some random activity yet.
We know how this goes in China (one time zone, no daylight savings time). Coming home from the bar in Beijing with the sun showing up at 4 AM was quaint back then, but I'm definitely glad we have DST in the states.
I think the talk of daylight savings time is a distraction, in the end it is arbitrary what the clock says. As a society we need to negotiate when (in celestial time) we want to do certain activities. For example, there are a lot of studies that school starts to early (relative to sunrise and the average bed time of teenagers). But the school starting time has to be decided politically. And reduced working hours or later start times have to be negotiated by trade unions, politics etc.. That's a lot more messy than just shifting wall time.
Our school schedules are set by weird rules involving when school bus capacity is available. But in general, 9AM is about when school starts (for my son's K-8, its 8AM here for K-5s), or summer camp session starts, or whatever. My schedule is so influenced by my kid these days, it happens to correspond to rush hour, which sucks, because everyone else's schedules are intertwined (so traffic).
I WFH and can definitely set my own work hours. Which is why its 12:30 AM and I still haven't gone to bed yet.
Of course. In Australia the southern states do summer time, and the northern states don't.
In plenty of countries the government decides the opening hours of shops, restaurants and sometimes even offices. Labour laws and nighttime pay are coupled to the hours on the clock. Hours you can make noise is decided by government. Germany has the mid-day resting hour (Mittagsruhe).